FAQs about B23E Engines


  • Compression and FI for a B23E.
  • How can I fix a loud resonance at certain engine speeds?
  • You can actually build a B23E from B21F.


  • Compression and FI for a B23E.

    Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 13:26:20 EST
    From: Tim Takahashi <tim@me.rochester.edu>
    To: wiegman@orion (Herman L. N. Wiegman)
    Subject: Re: B-23E Can

    A B23E has 10:1 compression, and K-Jetronic FI w/o Lambda, it has no egr but it has "pulse-air" - air-injection reactor on a very complex looking exhaust header. It also has a basic catalyst. The cam is different.... requires "premium" fuel.

    Externally, it looks like a 1977 B21F - however it has the heart of a Schwarzenegger. It was installed in 1981-1984 GLT and GLE 240-series cars. 1981-1984 DL and GL's had a B21A with a single SU. 1976-1980 cars were all injected. 1985- cars are US spec.

    tim


    Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 22:42:24 EST
    From: Tim Takahashi <tim@me.rochester.edu>
    To: wiegman@orion (Herman L. N. Wiegman)
    Subject: Re: B-23E Can

    Hot motor though... ROman's B21F has 30/1000's shaved off the head and doesn't begin to perform the way the B23E does. Serious synergy must exist between cam, injection and displacement.

    tim


    Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 13:35:26 EST
    From: wiegman (Herman L. N. Wiegman)
    To: tim@me.rochester.edu
    Subject: Re: B-23E Can

    > Serious synergy must exist between cam, injection and displacement.

    understood.. I have heard Fred Hammond (formerly of VCNA) talk about the Canadian cam as a good ITB solution (legality questionable) for the B21, 242's.

    I have looked through my manual on hte FI systems and besides the inexspensive emmisions shit (Pulsair), there are no discernable differences in the K-jet systems between US regular (non Calf) and Canadian B23E spec.

    I have a question about shaving. Do machine shops know what to shave off if given the bore andstroke? what did 30 mils give Roman for compression?

    The displacement I will certainly give credit to. IPD may have a B21->B23 conversion kit (pistons and rings) but is there a "better" route.. i.e. cheaper, by purchasing the Canadian parts directly?

    herm

    very interesting discusion.. should we see who on the net is interested?


    Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 15:48:36 EST
    From: wiegman@orion (Herman L. N. Wiegman)
    To: wiegman@crd.Ge.Com, swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu
    Subject: B21F -> B23E Canadian

    Netters,

    Tim and I have been discussing the virtues of the Canadian B23E motor. It is not as it first seems ... i.e. the '23' obviously means 2.3 liters and the 'E' represents the "high compression" motor. What is not obvious is that this motor looks like a US B21F (circa 1979-81) with the K-jet system. It was made for Canadian and, perhaps, other markets from 1981-84. It also has a tourquier cam which helps to produce 140+ hp. For those of us with B-21F's and B-23/0F's, this is music to our ears.

    I would like to know more about this motor. I would eventually like to use some of the parts of this motor to rebuild my B-21F into a Canadian Spec motor with US Lambda emmissions (the Canadian motor uses a "Pulsair" system which is less accurate than the Lambda system).

    I do have the Volvo FI sub-system manual which covers the FI differences between the B-19/21/23 K-jet motors. What I am interested in is the motor specifications and mechanicals to check compatibilty. Anyone else interested?

    thank you,

    herm

    Herman L.N. Wiegman -> wiegman@orion.crd.ge.com
    General Electric - Corporate Research & Development
    - the Flying Dutchman in the DSP Swedish Brick -


    Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:00 MST
    From: tech@cs.athabascau.ca (Richard Loken)
    To: wiegman@orion
    Subject: B21F -> B23E Canadian

    Re: goes like hell

    doesn't mean much does it? The standard is dependant on what you have, as I recall a 69 Hemi Roadrunner was good for 0 - 60 MPH in under five seconds. I beleive a decent Ferrari is good for 180 MPH and up.

    I have seen suggestions that the 240 is anemic and underpowered while mine is not, it has enough power to pass and merge under any reasonable circumstance and/or get out of trouble. I don't know how fast it will go due to a lack of interest.

    I am a labourer not an engineer so I can take the engine apart and reassemble it but I cannot comment on why or how it is tuned. The very unreilaible owner's manual says this:

    Engineq B23E B21A B21F B21F B21FT
    fuel metering K-Jetronic Carbureter K-jetrontic LH-Jetronic
    LH-Jetronic
    bore 96mm 92mm 96mm* 96mm* 92mm
    stroke 80mm 80mm 80mm 80mm 80mm
    compression 10 9.3 9.3 9.3 7.5
    SAE HP 136/5000 102/5250 98/5000 105/5400 127/5400
    SAE torque 137/4500 122/2500 112/3000 119/3000 150/3750
    fuel 93 RON 97 RON 91 RON 91 RON 91 RON

    * should this be 92mm?

    I told you the B21A had lower compression but I lied, I thought it did because it uses higher octane gas.

    It is unclear to me if any Canadian models had cat converters or Lambda Sond in 1982, possibly the turbo did since it was sold here. According to Chilton the B23E was only sold in Canada in 1982 and 1983 but I don't trust Chilton very much.

    You have now exceeded my capacity for information.

    Richard Loken VE6BSV : "Better sex, bigger homes,
    Athabasca University, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : faster cars. Vote YES on
    tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA : on Monday."
    {atha|aunro}!cs.athabascau.ca!tech : - Royal Canadian Air Farce


    Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 15:44 MST
    From: tech@cs.athabascau.ca (Richard Loken)
    To: wiegman@orion
    Subject: B21F -> B23E Canadian

    I have the B23E of course. According to the owner's manual it runs 136 Hp and lower compression then the B21A carburated model which ran slightly less hp. The Haynes manual mentions the B23E as a model sold in a lot of places. The Chilton manual also gives it passing mention so browse those two books for a while.

    Mine (1982) left the factory with no cat converter and rated to run either leaded or unleaded gas and since there is no cat converter there is not likely to be a oxygen correction system since it doesn't buy you anything. I certainly don't have a Lambda Sond system.

    Over the last year the idle has become quite rough and over Christmas it became undrivable, I limped it into the garage with an open exhaust, three cylenders running and the fourth barking out the exhaust, no idle, and no power. The garage fixed the exhaust, changed the front seals, and ran the fuel injection through a cleaning machine, he road tested it and told me it went like hell. That is not a small compliment from a man who spends his time fixing Detroit iron in a rural garage.

    He's right, it goes like hell, I should have done this two years ago. (and they tell me I should trade up to a new one....)

    Just one question. How would you get this past the emission test?

    Richard Loken VE6BSV : "Better sex, bigger homes,
    Athabasca University, Athabasca, Alberta Canada : faster cars. Vote YES on
    tech@cs.AthabascaU.CA : on Monday."
    {atha|aunro}!cs.athabascau.ca!tech : - Royal Canadian Air Farce

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    How can I fix a loud resonance at certain engine speeds?

    Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 14:20:37 EST
    From: Chrome <ford@me.rochester.edu>
    To: wiegman@orion (Herman L. N. Wiegman)
    Subject: Re: head job

    Not to put you off, or anything, but from what I understand, you have some of the same problems with your engine as I do with mine...namely a loud resonance at certain engine speeds, among other things.

    I will be looking into this on my car within the next two weeks, to see if there is a remedy. If there isn't, maybe you should consider getting a B23 (isn't the compression already higher on them?) or finding a real B23E in Canada. Also I can't tell you too much very definitively about the head shaving because I have not gotten my vacuum leak problem under control yet - therefore whether it pings when its running right or not is a question. It pings very slightly now, but I don't think its the engine - I think its the f.i. I do know that my head is seriously shaved - it was shaved when I bought it, and I had more taken off - it is down below the "safe" limit where valves can now hit pistons if the timing is off or the belt breaks.

    If you are going to use a B23E cam, think about pistons from the same motor - the notches for the valves may be in the right place - you get plenty more lift out of the H cam (I think that's the designation).

    To answer your question, a five angle valve job, new springs, and shave cost me $300. Not too bad, I felt, and a very nice job as far as I can tell.

    Talk to you later, senor.

    roman


    Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:35:36 EST
    From: Chrome <ford@me.rochester.edu>
    To: wiegman@orion (Herman L. N. Wiegman)
    Subject: Re: head job

    On Jan 27, 10:27am, Herman L. N. Wiegman wrote:

    } Getting a hole B-23E Canadian is a huge undertaking. I was wondering if
    } it were possible to get only the cam... and shims.. That way I could
    } have my head sent out, shaved a tad, new cam installed and later I could
    } try for more bore and new pistons.. kind of a two step process...

    That sounds reasonable - you still have K injection, so you should only have to make a few adjustments. I think I have the lift and duration numbers somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them up. They are vastly different. It may be a good idea to get the lifters and shims along with the cam, but you will have to adjust anyway.

    } does one determin this by simply eye-balling the head? or is there a book
    } which has maximum shaving tables.. or some such thing? What is a good
    } number to start with? .010" off the top? or do these machine shop guys
    } just do it by feel?
    }-- End of excerpt from Herman L. N. Wiegman

    Feel .010"? No wonder they call it a skill :) I don't really know how they decide, except that perhaps they measure the warp - but that would require a torque plate to do right...As I remember, mine is down a total of .030", and the spec for minimum height is given in the Haynes manual. I had no problems with valve adjustment or any such thing, so I can only deduce that that number has to do with valve-piston clearance.

    I may be thinking of getting a Canadian exhaust because of the terrible resonance I am experiencing - it does not have the first expansion chamber, and therefore may change the resonance point of the system. We'll see. This is kind of ugly work in the middle of the winter, but the car needs to be inspected, and the exhaust won't pass. The few extra $$ to help someone overlook this little problem are better spent on a new exhaust.

    See you,

    roman

    Say hi to Holly (sp?)

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    You can actually build a B23E from B21F.

    From: "Francois (F.Y.) Tremblay" <tref@bnr.ca>
    To: wiegman@orion, ron@drd.com
    Subject: Re: B23E from B21F

    Hi

    Thanks for the response about the rear suspension bushing, I did play with jacks to remove the stress on the bolt but still it doesn't come out. The rust (I'm in Ottawa!) must had the bolt and sleve welded together. I don't know what to do ???

    for Herm

    This B23E is actually from a 1983 wagon, the compression is between 10.0:1 and 10.3:1 and displacement at 2.3l . It had pulsair but I plugged it up. When I got the engine it had been in a fire so all the rubber and aluminium part were unusable. I did a complete rebuild, balance the crank/rods/pistons/flywheel, IPD camshaft/sprocket and used the K-jet and manifold from the original B21F. I now want to put the K-jet+lamda from the 79 on it and may be do some head work to improve the flow.

    You can actually build a B23E from B21F by using the bigger pistons (from a B23E), IPD has a kit for this. One nice thing on the real B23E is the oil/fumes separator on the block instead of the cam cover, this lowers the oil consumption at higher rpm.

    The B23E were used in Canada from 81 to 83 (maybe some 84) but the cam and ignition timing is not that great. You can advance the ignition but the knock sensor is the human type (ie: listen for knock/ping and adjust by hand) and use the best gas you can. The euro cam has even more lift than the IPD cam so if you can get one (get one for me as well ($$$)) it will give you a pretty wild brick with a free flow exhaust.

    Francois Tremblay B.N.R. Ltd
    tref@bnr.ca Ottawa, Canada
    (613)-763-3272
    My thoughts, My words -- Let BNR make its own mistakes.

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