From: latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu (dan latenser)
Subject: 82 Diesel
To: volvo-net@me.rochester.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 10:35:01 CDT
> We have an 84 Diesel (240 body style). When we bought it a couple of years
> ago it burned about a quart of oil every 800 miles or so. I thought that
> this was somewhat excessive as I have never had a car that burned oil like
> that. It didn't seem to be leaking it anywhere I could see, no white smoke
A quart of oil in 800 miles is not excessive for a Volvo Diesel. Oil consumption will vary considerably depending on how long your average trip is. The great temperature change in a Diesel engine requires large cold clearances that allow more oil to be used when the engine is cold.
> was coming out of the exhaust (as you have described - but what is that an
> indication of?) and the engine seemed clean except for a small amount of oil
> pooling in a depresson on the intake manifold. Trying to figure out where
This oil is burned and thus will only add a small amount to the exhaust plume. :-) One quart per 800 miles is a few drops per mile -- not much !
> As long as I'm asking questions about things I don't understand here's
> another one. Does my 84 Diesel have exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)?
> The reason I ask this is that I have an orange light on my dashboard
> saying EGR that lights up each time I start the car. However, for the life
> Greg A. Harris
> Auburn University, gharris@ducvax.auburn.edu
You need a manual for your Volvo - I will send you a copy of mine if you need it.
The orange light is for the glow plugs -- you are not supposed to turn over the engine until the orange light goes out (after you turn the key to the first position). It sounds like you have had the dash replaced - my '80 Diesel (65,000 miles - 38 mpg) does not have the 'EGR' logo on the dash - but the light is in the same location as the EGR indicator on the gasoline engines.
By the way -- if you do not know about the valve adjustment (each 7000 miles) and timing belt / cam belt replacement (each 65000 miles) you better find out pronto!!!
Dan Latenser
latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu
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> I have an '82 GL diesel wagon which I bought a few thousand miles ago.
> time. It has about 93000 miles on it, it burns about 1 quart of oil
> per 750 miles, it gets about 23 to 26 miles per gallon, I don't think
> it consumes coolant.
> I would appreciate any information on the following questions:
> How bad is 750 miles per quart of oil?
That amount of oil consumption is nothing to worry about. Normal for a Diesel that runs mostly short trips about town.
But your poor fuel mileage is a sign of trouble -- you should be up around 33 to 35.
> It is occasionally very difficult to start. About one time out of
> 25 it takes 5 or 10 minutes to get it going; it turns over but
> there's no combustion. Even when it's easy to start, if it's cold
> it smokes (white smoke) and idles rough until it's driven. This
> behavior may have gotten worse after I had the cooling system
> flushed (cold start device?). What does all this mean?
My '80 Diesel Volvo (65,000 miles) starts on the first crank every time (until the temperature goes below 20 degrees F.
Several possibilities -- probably a combination of the following.
1. Have the valves been adjusted lately -- Volvo Diesel engines need to have the valves adjusted every 7000 miles --- otherwise they will not maintain compression in the engine. This is vital to the continued operation of your engine I have no idea of the cost --- I do it myself --- (please note that is requires some special tools from volvo ) (By the way -- this is an Audi / Volkwagen engine with an extra cylinder tacked on -- so some parts / tools etc are available from Audi Dealers).
2. The glow plugs are failing -- get replacements (J.C. Whitney in the Volkwagen section -- somewhere in the $10 to $20 range each.)
3. Some of the fuel injectors are bad ( they can be pulled and replaced / tested fairly easily ). Rebuilt from Germany (remember the Audi/Volks combo is German) they cost about $33 each.
4. A low power battery -- you need to get the rpm's up to get it started.
5. Last resort -- problems with the Injector Pump (very expensive)
My guess is that the valve clearance has not been set in so long that the loss of compression has resulted in a timing change - and this is combined with one/several poor injectors and/or glow plugs. You can fix all of this yourself if you want.
latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu
Dan Latenser
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1991 06:20:27 PDT
From: John_C._Ackerman.Wbst311@xerox.com
Subject: Volvo Net (Diesels)
To: Volvo-Net@me.rochester.edu
Howdy All,
Call me crazy, or wierd, but I love diesel engines (just ask Tim). I hope that I am destined to have at least one car (or truck) sitting around that has one of those around. Well, I am getting back to the problem which Rich was having with his 82 GL wagon. my previous two forms of transportation were diesel powered, and I have seen more than my fair share of problems with them. The first one which I owned was a Diesel Rabbit, which started with about 70k miles on it. Then, after the rabbit kicked the bucket, I found myself driving a turbodiesel pickup truck, which I still have around. Well, with both the car and the truck I had the misfortune of having the injection pump go bad, this sent the rabbit to its eventual grave, and ended up costing me around $1200 to get the truck running again. The symptoms which were encountered were: *extreme* difficulty in starting the car when cold, and poor fuel economy (because half of it was running out onto the ground). If it is consistantly taking you 10 minutes to start the car when it is cold I would look into having the injection pump checked out. If the problem is indeed the pump, you are looking at a major repair bill. From my experience, pumps will cost $600+ for new, and 450+ for rebuilt pumps. these prices are for a Volkswagon rabbit, but don't expect any better for a Volvo. (I could only find a new pump for the truck at a cost of $1100)
Another problem which I ran into which caused all of the symptoms that you are stating (white smoke, rough running on startup, some hard starting), was a cracked head on the truck engine, which allowed coolant into one of the combustion chambers, hopefully your problem may be fixed with only a new head gasket. I wasn't so lucky. Another teltale symptom is a larger than normal fluctuation in the coolant temperature, but if you don't have a reference to how it should be, you don't know if your temperature is fluctuating more than normal.
I hope that I didn't shake you up with this news, but that has been what I've experienced so far, and even through all of these problems, I STILL LOVE DIESELS! There is truth to the saying, "diesels will run and run without breaking down, but when do, watch out, cuz it's gonna be a BIG problem."
John A.
One at a time I think I can answer your questions.
First, you should call the auto parts stores / bookstores in your area and get both of the following books. They will probably have to order them for you from their local warehouse, so you should call around until you find a place that will get them for you (call on a weekday).
Haynes auto repair manual for Volvo 240 Series. This manual will not cover the Diesel engine specifically but provides better information on most other parts ($10 to $15 - varies by bookstore).
Chilton Auto Repair Manual for Volvo 240 Series. This manual discusses the Diesel sufficiently to allow you to do all the necessary repairs. It lists the tools that are required. ($10 to $15 - varies by bookstore).
Other manuals of interest: Chilton Guide to Diesels ($10). Includes all sort of good information.
Your local library will have a selection of books on Diesels -many will have information specific to Volvo.
> Thanks for the responses to my previous post (20-AUG-1991, 82 Diesel).
> As you may have gathered, I don't know much about cars, but I am
> learning.
GET THE ABOVE MANUALS -- THEY ARE MANDATORY !!!!!
> Based on the information I got from Volvo-net subscribers,
> some reading, talking and exploring around my engine I conclude that
> my car's engine problems (oil consumption, poor fuel mileage,
> occasional hard starting) are probably manifestations of one or more
> of the following conditions:
> - Bad glow plugs. It appears that I have to remove the injector
> pump to get at a few of them. Is this true? Also, is it possible
> to test them (by measuring their resistance?) or is it better to
> just replace them all since they're only about $6/ea from JCW?
You can test them - see the manuals listed above. WARNING -removal of the injection pump is a complex job in that it requires precision tools to replace it. I easily replaced my injectors without having to remove the pump and the glow plugs are right beside the injectors. I do not think you should try to remove the injection pump.
> - Valves not adjusted. The valves may not have been adjusted for
> about 30,000 miles. Since the valves must be adjusted every 7000
> miles, I want to get the special tools (depressor and pliers?) and
> figure-out how to do this myself.
WARNING --- READ THIS CAREFULLY. If you have not adjusted the valves in that long you probably have not had the front overhead cam belt replaced or the rear injection pump belt replaced. These belts are not meant to last more than 65000 miles and if they break you will experience SERIOUS ENGINE DAMAGE that will require a total head rebuild. The valves are timed by the front belt and when the belt breaks they will probably impact the top of one or more piston heads during the compression stroke. This will bend the valves and damage the piston heads. THIS IS SERIOUS AND YOU SHOULD NOT DELAY HAVING SERVICE PERFORMED. The Chilton manual contains the complete procedure --- but you will need many specialized tools from Volvo (total cost close to $400).
The other problem is that you will have a large amount of valve erosion because of the prolonged period of use without setting the valve clearance. This will explain many of your performance problems. It is not the end of the world but may give you some performance problems and excessive fuel use even after you set the spacing.
> - One or more bad fuel injector.
These also can be tested. But since your engine runs smoothly after you have run for a while you may not have this problem. A good preventive is to get some Techron Diesel Fuel Treatment from the local Chevron dealer. This will help clean off deposits from the injectors.
> - Bad head gasket or warped or cracked head. There is some oil
> seepage around the head gasket along about 25% of the circumference
> near the injector pump. There is also some oil seepage around the
There is a gasket on the vacuum pump at this location that can cause this leakage. The seal is easily replaced. Also a certain amount of oil is normal along the gaskets. This is due to the high pressures in a diesel engine. Remember that the pressure in the cylinder will be somewhere around 600 PSI!! Over double the standard gasoline engine.
> valve cover end of the PCV hose (where is this pressure comming
> from?). I know the car once had to be towed into a shop due to an
> overheating problem (did the head get warped or cracked?).
I
Overheating is a common problem with all these engines and you may indeed have warped / cracked your engines heat. You would see oil in the water from the radiator or LOTS of oil / noise / leakage of diesel on the outside of the engine. Another symptom is the immediate blowout of all the water from you radiator. I doubt if this is your problem. Once again, ONE QUART OF OIL PER 800 MILES IS NOT OUT OF REASON OIL USAGE IN A DIESEL ENGINE. This is especially true if you take short trips around town.
> gather the first step here is to measure compression (probably
> convenient to do when the glow plugs are replaced). Is the diesel
> engine compression tester from JCW the way to go? Can the results
> of a compression test be interpreted unambiguously? Is it possible
not unambiguously -- low compression could be eroded valves, bad rings, blown gasket etc.
> for someone who doesn't know much about cars but is technically
> oriented to replace a head gasket? What if the head is warped?
If the head is warped a machine shop can plane it , but you would need a thicker gasket when you replace the head. In my opinion you will probably find yourself doing a head job to repair eroded valves. I would reset the valve clearance and then test the engine with the standard acceleration test that Volvo/Audi/Volkswagon/Mercedes all recommend as the method of evaluating your engine. I do not remember the exact number but it involves accelerating from a 30mph to 60mph --- anything under a fixed time (perhaps 45sec / 60sec??) is considered acceptable. Do not buy trouble until you have to. Using a Diesel involves preventive maintenance until such time as performance becomes unacceptable and then doing a rebuild. First, do you preventive maintenance (valves / belts /timing) and then check the performance -- then worry about a valve job -- unless you have oil in you radiator.
(Maby you shouldn't answer that last question.)
> I have tentitively ruled-out the following:
> - Bad fuel injector pump. This was replaced within the last year.
> - Under-powered battery. The battery is new and heavy duty.
700 Amps???
> - Fuel contamination. I have recently replaced the fuel filter. (I
> suppose the fuel tank may be contaminated.)
Don't forget to drain the water out of the fuel filter at regular intervals. Drain some into a glass jar (now!) and see if water settles out --- water is death to injection pumps /injectors.
> Again, thanks for the advice.
> Rich
You are welcome -- You are the only other Volvo Diesel owner I have ever talked to.
latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu
P.S. Check back and let me know what's up.
Then one day <Richard Cohen> said:
> Based on the information I got from Volvo-net subscribers,
> some reading, talking and exploring around my engine I conclude that
> my car's engine problems (oil consumption, poor fuel mileage,
> occasional hard starting) are probably manifestations of one or more
> of the following conditions:
> - Bad glow plugs. It appears that I have to remove the injector
> pump to get at a few of them. Is this true? Also, is it possible
> to test them (by measuring their resistance?) or is it better to
> just replace them all since they're only about $6/ea from JCW?
Don't know about the procedure for taking them out, but.... replacing them is rather cheap (except for the labor of possibly removing the injector pump - ugh!) Probably can be tested -- I don't know.
> - Valves not adjusted. The valves may not have been adjusted for
> about 30,000 miles. Since the valves must be adjusted every 7000
> miles, I want to get the special tools (depressor and pliers?) and
> figure-out how to do this myself.
Must be done. Do get the tools and learn how to do it yourself. A Haynes or Chilton (or both) manual for your car would be benificial, or the manual that Volvo also sells. The Volvo literature people are rather knowledgable about the cars and have answered many questions for me about the fuel injection.
> - One or more bad fuel injector.
Also a good possibility. Easily tested. The Haynes manual has the pictures that you need to compare the spray pattern to determine if they need replacement. You should probably change the injector gaskets (2 per injector - o-rings) whenever you take them out.
> - Bad head gasket or warped or cracked head. There is some oil
> seepage around the head gasket along about 25% of the circumference
> near the injector pump. There is also some oil seepage around the
> valve cover end of the PCV hose (where is this pressure comming
> from?). I know the car once had to be towed into a shop due to an
> overheating problem (did the head get warped or cracked?).
> gather the first step here is to measure compression (probably
> convenient to do when the glow plugs are replaced). Is the diesel
> engine compression tester from JCW the way to go? Can the results
> of a compression test be interpreted unambiguously? Is it possible
> for someone who doesn't know much about cars but is technically
> oriented to replace a head gasket? What if the head is warped?
> (Maby you shouldn't answer that last question.)
Could very well be if the car overheated badly. This means either heat straightening the head or a machine shop flattening the head surface. $$$$ Compression testing involves removing a spark plug and putting a compression guage in its place. Easy and quick test. Tells if valves seat properly and/or if compression rings seal properly. I am currently rebuilding the top end of my '77 242 and have never worked on the heads of an engine before. You should be able to do the work yourself -- with patience and the right tools.
> I have tentitively ruled-out the following:
> - Bad fuel injector pump. This was replaced within the last year.
Don't automatically make this assumption :-) without testing.
> - Under-powered battery. The battery is new and heavy duty.
Same here. Use a voltage meter on the battery while cranking.
> - Fuel contamination. I have recently replaced the fuel filter. (I
> suppose the fuel tank may be contaminated.)
Filter only takes care of particulate contamination. Water goes right through.....
> Again, thanks for the advice.
Your welcome.
> Rich
Michael G. Palmer | claimer dis:
ether: volvo@zaphod.b11.ingr.com | In no way speaking for
| Intergraph, Corp.
Here in Hawaii this time of the year is just about like any other time of the year. Instead of winterizing our cars we just sit out on our lanis, eat pupus and drink Mai Tai's. Ah, paradise.
Overall, my 82 diesel wagon is doing pretty good. One of these days I will have to do a compression (or measured acceleration) test, but my guess is that I'm getting about as much power as I can expect from a 75 hp, 100 foot-pound engine (makes me miss my 740 turbo).
As you may remember, about a month ago I couldn't start the car becasue of a failed glow plug relay. When I opened the relay I found a broken braided wire-to-braided wire connection. I got a new relay from TVK, installed it and the engine started without hesitation. Then, a couple of weeks ago, my wife reported having trouble starting after work. The next Saturday I replaced two of the glow plugs which I concluded were blown based on resistance measurements. Just for the hell of it, I decided to test the relay. Sure enough, even though it made a nice solid click-there were no volts at the output. Huh.
The Chiltons manual describes an 80 amp replaceable fuse at the bottom of the relay. My relays have had no such external fuse but I think the connection that broke in the original relay must have been some kind of "fusable link". I assume the new relay failed in the same way as the old and that the broken relays are a manifestation of a more fundamental problem . I soldered this connection together in the old relay and reinstalled it but did not connect the output line to the glow plug bus. On all but a couple of occasions the engine has started easily without any glow plugs at all (it doesn't get very cold here). When it's hard to start I temporarily connect the relay to the glow plugs.
I measured the current drawn by the glow plugs with a Hall effect amp meter: it was about 75 amps. I think I will replace 3 more glow plugs (there's one behind the fuel pump which I can't get to) and then do another current measurement. Instead of buying another relay I might try to rig up an 80 amp replaceable fuse to use with a repaired/modified relay.
I'm really loosing interest in the glow plug system. Now that I have a manual, I will start thinking about 'tune-up' procedures.
By the way, I appreciated the info from R. Loken on rewiring 245 tailgates. Nothing on my tailgate works and broken wires are clearly visible around the hinges. Another project to put on the queue.
Aloha
I think the problem was glow plugs after all.
I tested the fuel shutoff valve by disconnecting the 12V lead comming from the ignition and replacing it with a wire long enough to reach the battery. When I touched the other end of the wire to the positive terminal of the battery I could hear the solenoid click. The solenoid controls a valve which is normally closed. When the ignition is on the solenoid is activated thereby opening the shutoff valve and allowing fuel to pass. When the ignition is turned off the valve closes. It is this valve that allows the engine to be shut down.
I still wasn't positive that fuel was reaching the injectors so I pulled the cap off the end of the forward fuel return nipple of injector #1. When I cranked the engine I could see a little bit of fuel spitting out in pulses. I wasn't really sure if that was the right amount of fuel.
Then, I decided to reconnect the lead from the glow plug relay to the glow plug power bus and try just one more time. No sign of combustion and not much smoke comming out of the tail pipe. Are the glow plugs really getting power? I took out my meter and sure enough the relay wasn't working again. I opened the rely and the fusable link (?) which I soldered together with a very low power soldering gun intended for delicate integrated circuits had opened. I had checked the relay just a few days before the failure. I twisted some thin wire around the fusable link, reinstalled it, let the glow plugs warm up, turned the key and chicka-chicka-bang-roar-clunk-clunk, etc.
It's all very interesting. I guess I should have checked the glow plug circuit more carefully. But why did it suddenly not start without glow plugs. The temperature here hasn't changed by more than a couple of degrees. Maby I'm right on the fuzzy edge. What I need now is an 80 amp replaceable fuse to put in the glow plug circuit so I can leave it connected.
In response to Shel Hall's question about the #5 glow plug: The length of the glow plug is about 1/4 inch greater than the clearence between the head and the fuel pump. I don't know if you can get the glow plug out and in without removing the fuel pump - it looks real close.
Rich
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The carbon deposits don't increase the compression(unless you're got 'em REALLY bad) they merely stay hot and contribute to premature detonation. Try taking it up to highway speed and holding the revs up to try to clean them out. Some top end cleaner wouldn't hurt either.
Bill
Volvo Net,
I just caught the tail end of this so am not really sure of the history of this conversation but do have some useful information on carbon deposits so here goes. For combustion chamber carbon buildup: A trick that I was shown that definitely works is to run some diesel fuel through the engine. The diesel fuel is added to the intake system by any convenient port while the engine is running normally on gasoline (this is for gasoline engines not diesel engines) in small to medium gulps. The engine will want to stall out and will run rough even with the rpm's up. Start with the revs up and keep the revs up manually, as you pour the diesel fuel in. Rev the engine in spurts don't hold it there continuously and don't let it drop too low or it will stall out and you may have to clean the spark plugs. A white cloud will emanate from the exhaust. This is partially burned diesel fuel due to the lower combustion temperature/pressure (it is also mosquito spray if you recognize the smell).
This is continued for a while. At some point you hopefully will see some black puffs in the exhaust. This is the carbon breaking free. You can here the difference in the rumbling of the rough running. At this point we used to get really enthusiastic with the pouring and revving....it looks and sounds like its working well.....the neighbors get concerned seeing the massive white and black clouds and hearing the snorting and bellowing monsters! Upon completion continue to run the engine for a while until smooth, to clean the plugs, before shutting down.
The method works by the two routes so I here. The rough combustion provides jolts and shocks to the carbon deposits and the unburned diesel fuel soaks into the surface of them. When I performed this procedure it worked well and stopped a run-on post ignition condition. On an old volkswagen the compresion went down about 15 psi ( it was too high to begin with and was detonating all the time). It was arbitrarily decided to disconnect the vacuum advance as a precaution so as to avoid some undo loads to the connecting rods & bearings (don't want to spin one), piston skirts and wrist pins.
THIS PROCEDURE WAS INVENTED BEFORE THE ADVENT OF CATALYTIC CONVERTERS, KNOCK SENSORS, AND LAMBDA SENSORS ETC! If you expect a lot of carbon this may cause a problem in the converter or the diesel fuel may effect the lambda sensor. Also I am not familiar with what exhaust catalytic converters if any normal diesel cars have.
Darryl
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Folks-
On 30-Dec-91 at 17:08 EST COHEN@keck.hawaii.edu (Richard Cohen) gives us the glad news that it was the glow plugs after all, and his Diesel is now rattling on its merry way.
However, all is not well in Diesel land. No, no, _mine's_ OK, but I got a call from a friend about a non-netter whose '82 died down in middle Georgia, and, in researching his problem, I discovered some Volvo Diesel lore that I hadn't heard before.
My friend Wilson runs a small garage out in the country about 60 miles south of Atlanta; he calls the place "The Wrench Ranch." His real business is old Porsche restoration, but he also fixes pickup trucks, garden tractors, and anything else that happens along.
He makes house calls, too, and the dead Diesel in question was at the home of one of his regular customers, having been driven up from Savannah (on the Georgia coast) by some of said customer's friends.
After remaining outside overnight, the beast refused to start.
Wilson has worked on Mercedes Diesels, so he did the obvious and checked the glow plugs (voltage present, at least some of the plugs warm to the touch) and fuel injection pump (pulsed fuel available at injector).
He also noticed that there was a lot of blow-by coming out of the oil filler cap.
Since I have a Volvo Diesel, he called me for advice. Over the phone we checked various conditions on mine as a baseline for the equivalent condition on the dead one, then he went back to work on it while I called the local Volvo places for more suggestions.
"How many miles does it have on it?" Asked one guru.
"175,000." I replied.
"Most of 'em don't live that long," he said, "and they don't fade away like gas engines do; when a Diesel dies it usually does it pretty suddenly. It's probably just worn out. No compression, or at least not enough."
"Oh, yeah, those things like to die in the winter," said another chap. "They get cold and the rings won't seal well enough to give 'em enough compression to light off."
I wasn't exactly blinded by a moment of _satori_, but the fact that the car started fine from cold in Savannah, where it doesn't get very cold at all, but wouldn't start after being outside all night 100 miles north, 200 miles inland, and 1000 feet higher, lead me to believe that it's just plain gone.
Wilson was going to attempt to get the car going by warming the motor overnight with an under-the-car heater, then refilling it with hot water and warm oil in the morning, in the hope that if it started it would continue to run.
However, the owners have decided to have Wilson put in a good, used engine, instead. It looks like I'll be assisting in this surgery, so I'll have more to report after the work is done.
Diesel lore #1 ...
I'm sure you know that the Diesel engine used in the Volvo is a Volkswagen unit, and a derivative of the Rabbit Diesel 4-banger, but did you know Volvo also offered that engine in 5-cylinder, 2.0 liter form? One of the manuals I looked at covered that engine, y-clept the D20, as well as the D24. I don't know what they put it in, however. I can't imagine putting it in the 240 body, though, as the D24 will hardly drag the thing around as it is.
Diesel lore #2 ...
A couple of the chaps I talked to mentioned the normal wear/failure mode of the D24 engine, which seems to be scoring and wearing of the cylinder walls, combined with soft piston rings, eventually leading to low compression, lack of power, and failure to start in cold weather.
#3 ...
There are several different heads used on the D24, and the US/Canadian market cylinder head varies from the world-market head, specifically in that the pre-chambers are a different diameter. I don't know what difference this makes, either. The turbo-diesel head is different again, I'm told, though I don't know what the difference is. The same chap told me the internals of the block are the same, turbo or not. There is a turbo'd 240 Diesel running around Atlanta, but I don't know the details of the installation.
Another piece of lore ...
A while ago, someone asked about the oldest battery in use in a netter's car. I doubt mine was the oldest, but the one in my 1984 240 DL Diesel lasted three days short of seven years. It's my wife's car, so when it ran down trying to crank a healthy motor, then one cell wouldn't recharge, I replaced it. If the Volvo were my daily driver, I'd probably have been able to stretch it out a few more months with the trickle charger and careful attention to the cold-start drill, but the whole point of a wifely Diesel was to make her car 100% reliable, and a dubious battery would defeat that goal.
Interstate batteries has an exact replacement for the big battery in the Diesel; list is about $110, but I managed to talk a local filling station/garage into ordering one (no inventory cost) and selling it to me for $75.
One more piece of Diesel lore ....
In talking to the various local Diesel gurus, the subject of ejecting the Diesel from Wilson's customer's car came up, and the general feeling was that it was economically unjustifiable; there are too many differences in the rest of the car to make installing a gas engine a good idea. The differences mentioned included the gas tank, fuel pumps, exhaust system, and both the main and underhood wiring harnesses, as well as the obvious stuff like the motor mounts and bellhousing.
Locally, an under-50,000 mile complete "takeout" Diesel motor w/90 day guarantee goes for $1,600 plus installation. No one would give a firm price on a rebuild of the existing engine, but everyone said it would be well over $2,000 plus R&R labor.
Rumor has it that Volvo wants $4,400 for a new motor. I don't know if that includes a new injection pump or not; a new pump alone is about $1,200.
A "gasoline engine conversion kit" alledgedly containing everything necessary to make the conversion was offered for $2,200, the parts having been extracted from one or more low-mileage wrecks. That fellow estimated "somewhere between 20 and 30 hours" of labor would be required to install the kit.
More when I know more, and anyone with superior knowledge is urged to chime in with augmentations, corrections, or comments.
-Shel
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Folks-
On 14-Jan-92 at 13:33 EST cblpo!matula (Valentine C Matula +1 614 860 2650) writes ...
>>> I removed a D24 from my 1983 265. I've replaced it with a D24 from a 1984 sedan. (67,000 miles) Neither engine was a turbo. Both were engine types "77".<<<
Just coincidentally, I have an '84 with 69,000 miles on it, and just assisted in swapping engines on a friend's customer's '82 or '83 car.
So I've seen both the earlier engine and the late one, recently.
I assume you replaced the cam timing belt before you put the engine in; I think it would be a lot harder to do in the car than on an engine stand.
How many miles did your old engine have on it, and what was the failure mode?
>>> (Best Foreign Auto Parts - Columbus, Ohio $1000+150 core. 120 day garrantee. Injection pump included; no starter)<<<
A much better deal than my friend's customer got; it cost the guy $1500 (plus our labor) and the core charge was $500. 30-day warranty with a whole list of "you gotta do" things to make it effective. Included pump but no starter. Frankly, I'd buy a run-out engine for $150 just for parts and to have it around so I could rebuild it if the one in my '84 ever dies.
>>>Problem: The old injection pump matches my 1983 shop manuals in model no. and in picture. In particular, there is a flat plate held on by two screws on the driver side of the pump near the bottom.
The 1984 engine has a solenoid there, with a small pipe running to the top of the pump. (No, I'm not confusing this with the solenoid at the top of the pump for fuel shutoff). 1984 pump is model L-146-1.
This solenoid wire goes to a 2 1/2 inch diameter metal cap with a microswitch in it. Length of wire is about 3 feet.<<<
Is this "metal cap" a device located on the firewall in front of the driver? With two wires connected to it? That looks a good bit like a Honda motorcycle horn? If so, I've been told that's an "altitude compensator."
If not, let me know. It's freezing cold down here, and our Diesel lives outside, so I'd rather not go fossicking around out there in the dark, but I will if you need me to.
In any case, disconnecting that lower solenoid won't keep a moderately cold engine from starting. I thought it was the fuel cutoff and pulled the wire once after changing the oil; I was going to pump up oil pressure before letting the engine start. Naturally, it started on the first lick even with the wire off ....
>>> Second item: The cold start device screws at the back of the throttle linkage cable on the pump were disconnected when I received the engine. As if someone retimed the pump, but forgot to rotate the collar and retighten "screw # 2".<<<
I dunno about this, but I can measure mine and tell you how it is set up. My manual says not to fool with this, since it has to be "reset on a testing bench" if the setting is changed. I would assume that close would be good enough, and that we can get it close.
>>>Third item: There's an extra nipple on the coolant pipes on the 1984 engine. This I can easily plug.<<<
If you mean the one on the lower hose that goes back from the water pump housing to the heater, with a branch up to the injection pump, well, the fourth connection on that isn't used for anything on my '84, and it's already plugged from the factory. I can't imagine why they abandoned the nice little fitting on the earlier cars in favor of this thing. It weeps slightly on my car, by the way.
>>> 1) What did they introduce on the 1984? <<<
I think the faster glow plugs came in with the '82s, so I guess the revised pump and cold start/altitude compensator stuff is the big change. The wiring in the main fuse box is different, too, though I don't expect that will be a factor for you.
>>> 2) What does this solenoid do? New cold start?<<<
I think so, given its position on the pump, but I really don't know.
>>> 3) Should I reconnect the cold start device? <<<
I dunno.
I have a manual on the engine, but not on the pump itself; unfortunately, the manual is down at my friend's garage, but should return in a couple of days.
If you want to call me on 404-351-8478, I can take the cordless phone out and tell you what I see on my box-stock '84. Sometime after Noon would be OK.
-Shel Hall 76701.103@CompuServe.com
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In late response to Shel Hall's questions:
>>> I removed a D24 from my 1983 265. I've replaced it with a D24 from a 1984 sedan. (67,000 miles) Neither engine was a turbo. Both were engine types "77".<<<
I changed both cam timing belts and the front belt idler pully before putting the "new" engine into the car. That was based on your previous mail. Thanks for the advice.
S>How many miles did your old engine have on it, and what was the failure S>mode?
Old engine had 137,000 miles. Previous owner was original owner. Previous owner was a retired Navy doctor who drove it to Mexico each winter--most miles were highway miles. Car was dealer serviced before I bought it at Garden State Volvo - on Rt 35 in Manasquan (near Asbury Park), NJ.
Car burned about 1 qt / 1000 miles of oil. Also a heavier smoker. Oil changes by dealer were at 7500 to 9000 miles. I suspect that engine was worn when bought--price was adjusted accordingly. Only previous engine work from records was an injection pump in 1983 with 1400 miles (under warrentee-$950 in 83!!), and belt change at 72,000 miles. Oil was sludged.
Failure mode: One month before failure, milage dropped from 33-34 mpg to 29-30 mpg. Didn't think much of it at time. Also, began noticing that oil level was NOT dropping 1 qt/1000. In fact, now I suspect that oil level was INCREASING slightly.
Then, one cold (22 F.) morning, that was it. No start. Later in the day (45 F.), kicked off. Drove it to work. Returned home. Next day, 30 F., no start, never did again. Fuel stop solenoid ok, fuel ok (rigged up a tank above engine, pump pulled all fuel in no time), glow plugs ok, etc.
Compression: 3 cylinders at 400-430 psi. 2 at 390-400. One at 195.
Analysis: I think a cylinder died early. Now, no power from cyl., so fuel milage dropped. Also, fuel wash started to offset oil burning, adding oil to crankcase. When more cyl. got weak, the fellow died. Took off head. All cyl. were heavy carboned, EXCEPT 195. It was washed clean.
>>>Problem: The old injection pump matches my 1983 shop manuals in model no. and in picture. In particular, there is a flat plate held on by two screws on the driver side of the pump near the bottom.
The 1984 engine has a solenoid there, with a small pipe running to the top of the pump. (No, I'm not confusing this with the solenoid at the top of the pump for fuel shutoff). 1984 pump is model L-146-1.
This solenoid wire goes to a 2 1/2 inch diameter metal cap with a microswitch in it. Length of wire is about 3 feet.<<<
Is this "metal cap" a device located on the firewall in front of the driver? With two wires connected to it? That looks a good bit like a Honda motorcycle horn? If so, I've been told that's an "altitude compensator."
BINGO! The information I was looking for. 1983 and previous engines were required to adjust a screw to reduce fuel injection for high altitude operation. This sounds like an automatic fuel amount reducer. I'll try to run it without the solenoid also.
>>> Second item: The cold start device screws at the back of the throttle linkage cable on the pump were disconnected when I received the engine. As if someone retimed the pump, but forgot to rotate the collar and retighten "screw # 1".<<<
Base on the above, I'll reconnect the device.
Thanks again, Shel. If it ever starts, I'll let you know. (I've got to charge the battery, now.). BTW, this car has laid dormant for a year. Any other advice before I start it up?
Val Matula
Folks-
In the continuing saga of the Volvo.Net Diesel Corps, cblpo!matula (Valentine C Matula +1 614 860 2650) writes on Mon, 20 Jan 92 13:34 EST about the results of his engine swap and autopsy
>>>Old engine had 137,000 miles.<<<
Not real outstanding engine life, I'd say.
>>>Car burned about 1 qt / 1000 miles of oil.<<<
Mine has done this since new, more or less, but remember that Diesels don't have much cylinder vacuum to suck oil past the rings or down the intake valve stems.
>>>Also a heavier smoker.<<<
So has mine always been.
>>>Oil changes by dealer were at 7500 to 9000 miles.<<<
The factory specifies oil changes at 7,500 mile intervals, and filter changes at 15,000! "Insanity," say I, and do both every 3,750 miles. I expect the lack of oil changes was partially responsible for the early engine death.
>>> Oil was sludged. <<<
Why am I not suprised?
>>> Failure mode: One month before failure, milage dropped from 33-34 mpg to 29-30 mpg. Didn't think much of it at time. Also, began noticing that oil level was NOT dropping 1 qt/1000. In fact, now I suspect that oil level was INCREASING slightly.
Then, one cold (22 F.) morning, that was it. No start. Later in the day (45 F.), kicked off. Drove it to work. Returned home. Next day, 30 F., no start, never did again. Fuel stop solenoid ok, fuel ok (rigged up a tank above engine, pump pulled all fuel in no time), glow plugs ok, etc.<<<
Confirms the lore I've heard: they will live as long as it's warm outside. Pretty strange behavior for a German engine in a Swedish car, if you ask me.
You _might_ have been able to start it if you got it warm first, say with an infusion of pre-heated coolant and oil, or maybe if you towed it up to a goodly speed, but these would be temporary measures at best.
>>>Compression: 3 cylinders at 400-430 psi. 2 at 390-400. One at 195.<<<
195 definitely won't light Diesel fuel; I've seen values almost that high on high-compression gasoline racing engines. 400 doesn't sound all that wunnerful, either, but I don't know what it should be. The only Diesel compression gauge I've ever seen went to 1000 psi, though.
>>>Analysis: I think a cylinder died early.<<<
Yeah, but what from? Cracked rings? Cylinder walls scored? Valve burnt?
>>>Took off head. All cyl. were heavy carboned, EXCEPT 195. It was washed clean.<<<
Were the upper edges of the dead cyliner's piston square or rounded off? The engine rebuild manual says that if the piston is rounded off that it indicates a bad injector in that cylinder.
>>> BTW, this car has laid dormant for a year. Any other advice before I start it up?<<<
I'd change the fuel filter before I tried to start it, or at least drain the water out of the filter by opening the little tap on the bottom.
Pull the fuel solenoid wire and let the starter turn it over a few times to get the oil back up in the oil galleries. Once you have oil pressure, start as normal. Once it gets warmed up, change the oil and filter, and change them again in 500 miles or so, once the oil has sorta washed out the engine.
My '84's manual really likes 15w40 oil, which is pretty rare. I've seen Castrol Fleet in that weight, as well as Valvoline Turbo. I've also seen Ford Motorsport oil in that weight at a Ford dealer, so I expect all Ford dealers would have it. Use CD service oil, of course.
-Shel
----- Begin Included Message -----
>From 76701.103@compuserve.com Sat Feb 15 00:51:25 1992
Date: 14 Feb 92 23:29:00 EST
>From: Shel Hall <76701.103@CompuServe.COM>
Arun-
(i) I'm getting poor mileage and hard starting in very cold weather
(< 12 F), in addition to excessive crankcase venting. Do you think
that's a sure sign that I have piston ring/bore wear? The car has
90 K on it.
<<<
Yeah, it sounds like DEDS (Diesel Early Death Syndrome) but it could just be a combination of a couple of bad glow plugs and bad timing, too; 90k miles is a little young for bad bore wear, judging from what I've been able to find out. Of course, if you haven't been religious about oil and filter changes, or do a lot of short trips in cold weather, it might be the seemingly-usual bore wear and scoring. Especially if you are getting a lot of blow-by.
You can test the glow plugs by taking the copper connecting strips and connecting wires off, and using a test light from the hot terminal on battery to the connector on each glow plug. If the test light doesn't glow, the plug is bad. I can tell you from experience that my naturally-aspirated D24 (70k miles and in good health) will start right up on 5 good glow plugs at 15 degrees F, but with only 4 good plugs it will hardly light off at 25 degrees. When it was new and had all the glow plugs working, it cranked right up at minus 7 F.
New glow plugs are $21.50 at a dealer, but can be found for lots less at discount foreign car parts places; Bosch makes 'em.
I assume you know the correct cold-start drill.
>>>
Sounds like they got the injector timing out of whack, at the least. My understanding is that this is super-critical, and easy to get wrong. Local independent garages charge about $50 to set the injector timing.
(iii) Is there an oil-trap in the PCV breather cap that could have
stopped functioning? I was considering replacing it just to see if
It would make a difference, though I can't see how such a device could
fail?
<<<
I don't know nothin' 'bout no oil trap; on my D24 the breather is just a hose from the top of the valve cover to the intake tract. The oil filler cap seems to be a positive-seal device, with no breathing responsibilities. Inside the valve cover there is a baffle to keep oil from just squirting up into the hose, but I'd hardly call it an "oil trap." In any case, it doesn't trap very much damned oil on mine!
Now for the bad news. From what I've been able to find out, bad injector timing in Diesels can do more than a bit of damage to the pistons and rings. The rings can crack, or, if things really go bad, you can hole a piston.
The list price for a set of new pistons (are you sitting down?) is over $1,000. A complete engine rebuild will run $4,000 or so.
Before I sunk a lot of money into that engine, I'd have someone run a compression check on it. There's no sense in doing a lot of fooling around with it if it has low compression on one or more cylinders.
To check the compression you have to have a special adapter that goes where the injectors go, and a special Diesel compression gauge, but there's no rocket science involved. While the injectors are out have them tested, if the compession is OK. Injectors are too expensive (about $50 each) to replace like spark plugs, but it is quite possible that one or more aren't giving the right spray pattern. This _might_ also be the source of the engine noise, too.
Now, I don't want to scare you; all your problems might be tracable to a little of this (a bad glow plug or two), a little of that (a marginal injector) and a little of something else (the timing is off just a bit) and can easily be fixed. Unfortunately, these things take someone with knowledge and understanding, along wih special equipment, to put right. I'm on my way up the knowledge and understanding curve, but I don't have much experience and I'm a little low on special equipment.
-Shel
P.S. Was there no Volvo.Net mail on 2/13 or 2/14? I got nothing from the Net, just a message or two sent direct.
P.P.S. Should we "echo" this to the Net?
----- End Included Message -----
Shel,
Thanks a lot -- I'm planning to go to a local mechanic (recommended by Tim T.) who's supposed to be knowledgeable. At least I'm now armed with all the possibilities. If it is indeed DEDS, I suppose it's better to know now rather than later.
Yes, I think there are a couple of diesel folk who'd be interested, so you might as well echo this to the net. Also, traffic was low on the days you mention, but non-zero.
Thanks again -- I'll keep you posted.
-Arun
Val, Shel, other D24 owners and the net,
The cold-start device (a coolant temperature sensing cable actuator connected to the injection pump) on my D24T is not working. It is stuck in the cold position, and is probably the cause of the poor fuel economy I've been getting for some time now.
I've temporarily disconnected the gizmo (permanent warm start position) to verify that it is indeed the cause of the diesel-guzzling, but I am obviously faced with the task of replacing/fixing it.
Apparently Volvo does not stock the part separately -- I'll have to check this out. Do diesel Audi's/VW's have a similar device on their injection pumps? Do gas engines have it, too?
As I understand it, the cold-start device both bumps up the idle *and* changes injection-pump timing. According to the shop manual, the injection-pump (piston?) displacement should be 0.25 mm greater with the cold-start device than without. Does this mean that the pump delivers more fuel when the engine is cold?
Any tips are appreciated!
-Arun
Val, Shel, other D24 owners and the net,
The cold-start device (a coolant temperature sensing cable actuator connected to the injection pump) on my D24T is not working. It is stuck in the cold position, and is probably the cause of the poor fuel economy I've been getting for some time now.
I've temporarily disconnected the gizmo (permanent warm start position) to verify that it is indeed the cause of the diesel-guzzling, but I am obviously faced with the task of replacing/fixing it.
Apparently Volvo does not stock the part separately -- I'll have to check this out. Do diesel Audi's/VW's have a similar device on their injection pumps? Do gas engines have it, too?
As I understand it, the cold-start device both bumps up the idle *and* changes injection-pump timing. According to the shop manual, the injection-pump (piston?) displacement should be 0.25 mm greater with the cold-start device than without. Does this mean that the pump delivers more fuel when the engine is cold?
Any tips are appreciated!
-Arun
1. Only diesels have this part, as it is a part of the injection pump.
2. Audi/VWs do have a similar part. In fact, they probably have the exact same part, as the BOSCH inject pump used on the volvo is used on a number of different diesel engines.
3. If the pump-piston is .25 greater when measured, it can be because of one of two things:
a: Earlier injection. That is, on warm it it is .25mm deeper when measured, but it will eventually be at the same point at the same time.
b: More/less injection.
You might go to a BOSCH dealer with the part number of the injection pump and see what they quote you. The problem is I don't think its a replace and run part--I think you have to adjust the unit after replacement.
All the cold start usually consists of is a bi-metal plunger in a wax block. After a hot run, the wax is liquid. As the plunger cools, it goes into the cold position. The wax eventually solidifies and holds the plunger there. On the next cold start, the wax holds the plunger in the cold position until the antifreeze heats up, releasing the plunger. By this time, the bi-metal spring moves the control into the warm position.
Of course, with this weather lately, you have until Nov. to fix the problem... ;^)
Val
>>>>> On Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:03:48 -1000 (HST), COHEN@keck.hawaii.edu
>>>>> (Richard Cohen) said:
I own an 84 diesel, 120K miles on it, and I have the same problem. I go through almost a set of glow plugs every winter. One common factor we have is that we both live in warm climate. (I live in Florida.) Anyone in the northern climate have the same problem?
We might have found the problem tough. Our new mechanic found that the compression was low and the fuel line had some small leaks. The piston rings have been replaced, the valves reground and the leaks fixed. This was last fall and we have not had any problems this winter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Song Koh Harris Semiconductor
Folks-
In reply to Richard Choen's plea for help with his '81 Diesel's glow plugs, swk@mlb.semi.harris.com (Song Koh) says, in part ...
>>> I own an 84 diesel, 120K miles on it, and I have the same problem. I go through almost a set of glow plugs every winter. One common factor we have is that we both live in warm climate. (I live in Florida.) Anyone in the northern climate have the same problem? <<<
I live in Atlanta, where it gets hot in the summer, and relatively cold, at least once, in the winter. My '84 Diesel required 4 glow plugs at 30,000 miles (got _very_ hard to start the first cold snap in October), and got 4 more between 60,000 and 70,000 miles (same deal).
Other than that, it has always lit right off. Even with the dead glow plugs, it eventually started, though it rattled, smoked, and stank when it finally did. Being the kind of guy I am, I replaced the dead 'plugs right away both times.
I have absolutely no idea why you palm-tree-paradise types have so much trouble with your glow plugs, but I tempted to say it's devine retribution.
>>> We might have found the problem though. Our new mechanic found that the compression was low and the fuel line had some small leaks. The piston rings have been replaced, the valves reground and the leaks fixed. <<<
Those are problems, though I can't imagine what they would have to do with glow plug life, unless the low compression made you heat-and-reheat the 'plugs over and over, trying to get it to start.
Did your mechanic express any opinion or comments on the condition of the bores when he replaced the rings? I have been told that bore wear and scoring is a weak point in these engines, and eventually causes them to lose compression to the point that they will not start. Around here, no one expresses much enthusiasm for a ring job as a permanent cure for this condition.
-Shel
Folks-
In reply to my diatribe about rubber timing belts, and my assertion that
>>Timing belts are quiet and cheap, so the manufacturers love them, but
King Cynic (jackson@pravda.enet.dec.com) sez ...
It cost $200 and you did it yourself? $200 is a lot of money on a D.I.Y. repair!
>>> Now, if you want to talk about first-generation Escorts, where if the timing belt breaks, the pistions slam into open valves, you're right. <<<
This is also true of the Volkswagen Diesel motor used in the Volvo Diesels, turbo or not. In fact, I'm reliably informed that front timing belt failure in the Volvo Diesel usually destroys the cylinder head, as well, and has been known to break the crankshaft. To get the 22:1 compression ratio the Diesel needs to achieve compression ignition, there just isn't any surplus piston-to-valve clearance.
And John_E_Werner.Wbst311@xerox.com sez ...
>>> As far as I know, most Volvo designed engines (note: the V6 was designed by Renault) are crash proof. This means that when the timing goes astray, you won't be smashing up valves. The only exception I can think of to the crash proofness is on highly re-worked motors where significant (read 1/8 + inches) of height has been taken off either the head or block. <<<
See my comments on the Diesel, above.
And contemplate that Joe Average doesn't know who designs the engine in his car; that's why GM got sued for putting Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles, and that's why GM now has that little "GM engines are made by various GM divisions" line at the bottom of their print ads.
Joe Average sees the name on the car, assumes it has some meaning, and buys it. You cannot say "Volvo engines don't do blah blah" because a lot of "Volvo engines" (i.e engines in Volvos) aren't designed or built by Volvo.
>>> Do Volvos really drive the water pump off the timing belt. I could have sworn it was off the fan belt. <<<
The Diesel drives the water pump off the front timing belt. Trust me, I've replaced one.
and martenbf@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Brian F. Marten), in responding to John, yelps ...
>>> You are correct, Volvos drive the water pump off of the fan belt.<<<
Not true of _all_ Volvos. The Diesel drives the water pump off the front timing belt.
>>> You do have to remove all of the other belts to replace the timing belt. This might be an annoyance but, I would hardly call it a great inconvenience.<<<
In the Diesel, to replace the waterpump, you have to remove the following:
At this point you can change the Diesel's timing belt. If you want to change the water pump, you have to go a bit deeper, and remove ...
cam sprocket (not keyed, so you have to time the cam when you put it back) rear cover for the front timing belt
Essentially, you have to strip the front of the engine back to the bare block. You _can_ get by without removing the cam sprocket, but then you'll have to bend the rear timing cover to get access to the water pump.
Now, I've done this with the engine out of the car, and without the accessories or mounts on it; in the car I expect it's a bitch, and it looks like you also have to take off the P/S pump and mount to get one of the upper, outer timing cover clips off.
The water pump is used to tension the cam timing belt, so you have to move it around when you change the timing belt. This frequently makes the pump leak, so most folks replace the water pump when they "do" the timing belt (75,000 miles), especially since getting to the water pump requires only a little more work that changing the timing belt itself.
>>> I thought one of the good points of Volvos was the fact the belt can fail and not destroy the engine. <<<
Maybe true of the gas four-bangers, but not true on the Diesel. I don't know about the V6; I thought it used chains!
-Shel
I've had the injectors out a bunch of times on my D24.
You need a 27mm or a 1 and 1/16 inch DEEP socket-but not an impact wrench one.
The Sears Craftsman 1 and 1/16 inch deep chrome socket does the trick!
Don't be surprised if it takes A LOT of effort to get them out the first time. Blow with an air gun around the injector BEFORE you pull any hoses or pipes--dirt is your evil enemy here.
The second I pull a pipe, I take heavy duty aluminum foil, and wrap the ends of both the pipe and the top of the injector to prevent ANY dirt from entering the system. It also helps to pre-label the pipes, their order on the inject pump, and their order in each of the two clamps-the 2-pipe and the 4 pipe.
Finally, if you make a note to yourself on the order in which you removed the pipes, the replacement will be a piece of cake--otherwise, you can spend a little bit of time sorting the thing out at the end.
For a compression gauge, I use the JC Whitney diesel compression gauge with the Audi/VW adapter. When I bought it 4 years ago, it was a US made, U.S. Gauge, Inc. unit. Hight quality. Don't know if that is still what they ship.
Val Matula
Folks-
In reply to the various messages about Volvo Diesels, latenser@unlinfo.unl.edu (Dan Latenser) says ...
>>> You must check / adjust the valve clearance every 7000 miles.<<<
Actually, the book for my '84 says "every 15,000 miles" which means we're both wrong, since I said (from memory) in an earlier post that it was every 30,000.
However, the clearances on mine were still "in spec" at 60,000, having been checked by the dealer (one supposes) at 15,000, and by me, personally at 30,000 and 60,000. No adjustments needed at 30k or 60k, BTW, and no shims on the parts list for the 15k check. Most modern bucket-tappet OHC engines seldom need actual valve adjustments.
>>> Takes special tools and some effort.<<<
Nothing but a 10 mm wrench and a feeler gauge to check 'em, actually, and the "special tools" aren't really nessa even to swap shims, though you do have to have the shims themselves. Any Rabbit mechanic can do it, too, and they all know how to get the shims out by shooting them with compressed air.
>>> Harder than changing spark plugs. <<<
Yeah, but not a lot, and the gassers need their valves checked/adjusted every 30,000 (says the book), anyway.
And in any case it's far easier than on a Jaguar twin-cam (3.4/3.8/4.2 litre) six, where you have to take the cams out to change the shims!
Or on an old VW Beetle (or Porsche 356) where you had to do it from under the car, every 3,000 miles!
>>> On the Volvo Diesel, at 65,000 miles you must replace the timing belts <<<
Actually, the book says 75,000 ...
>>> (if you don't you will end up with a total engine rebuild including purchasing new pistons, crank arms, valves, and on and on). <<<
Too twoo!
>>> In doing so you should also replace the water pump and some pulleys. Done properly by a dealer the cost will easily approach $1000. <<<
Local specialists here say the whole 75,000 mile check (including valve adj, all fluid changes, timing belt, water pump, idler pulley, etc. etc. will run "$700 to $900" though I would expect they know to the penny, since they should all be the same....
>>> Diesels also have a harder time adjusting to high elevation. <<<
There's some kind of "altitude compensator" dingus on my '84, though I have to admit the car's never been above about 3000 feet, so I don't know what (if anything) said dingus does. Up to 3000 feet, though, the car does OK.
>>> Instant fail safe start -- mine has never failed to start on the first revolution <<<
Ours has, twice, in 72,000 miles. Both times it had a few dead glow plugs, and it was cold, and both times it eventually cranked after a bit of effort.
Other than that, it's lit right off at temperatures down to -7f, which is about as cold as it gets here in Atlanta.
>>> Hint -- look at the driveway of any Diesel owner.<<<
There's a pretty good stain under ours, left over from the first time I changed the oil and managed to dump most of the oil in the filter into the belly pan, whence it dripped all over hell and half of Georgia. Since then I've developed a no-spill technique for filter changing. Ours doesn't leak.
On the other hand, our driveway will never rust!
>>> It is always nice to know that the certified Diesel mechanic I take my car to will be a complete idiot ... <<<
No diffo from his gasser cousins!
>>> look at the prices for used Diesels. I purchased mine for $2500 and it only had 52,000 miles -- not one thing wrong with it <<<
What a steal! The local _dealer_ offered me $6,000 for my '84 t the end of the lease (in 1990), and it only had about 45,000 on it. It was, however, _really_ clean.
>>> Buying a used Diesel is generally buying a car without a engine. <<<
Can you say "CheVolvo?" I thought you could!
>>> Would I sell my Diesel Volvo? -- Nope -- But I'm an idiot.<<<
Something else we disagree on ... you sound OK to me.
-Shel
Folks-
boz@romulus.cray.com (Marvin Bausman 1359) is considering a
Diesel to Gas conversion ...
>>> I am considering purchasing a Diesel wagon, with intentions of swapping the B21F gas engine out of my 76 245. I am considering this to basically upgrade to a rust free body. My questions all revolve around how big of a job this would be and how many modifications would have to made. <<<
It's the same basic car, and the engine bolts in the same place, but there are some differences; here's a not-very-complete list I worked up when contemplating the same thing ...
(1) The Diesel doesn't have _any_ electric fuel pumps. The wiring for the in-tank pre-pump is there (in my '84 Diesel sedan's trunk) but I don't know if the main pump wiring is there (i expect not) or if the wiring that's present in the trunk goes all the way to the fuse panel.
(2) The Diesel is real short on underhood wiring, compared to the gasser, and some of the stuff required may not be in the main harness, either. Several (three or four) of the fuses in the Diesel's fuse panel have no function. Is the wiring there? I dunno.
(3) The engine-bellhousing interface (ha!) is different, so get a Diesel with the same type of tranny, if you can, else you'll have to find a bellhousing.
(4) Eric Friets once sent me a table of normal rear-end ratios for mid-eighties 240s ...
--------------
regular manual transmission M46 3.31
regular cars with the AW70 automatic 3.73
turbo manuals 3.73
turbo automatics 3.91
diesel manuals 3.54
diesel automatics 3.31
Table by Ratio
--------------
turbo automatics 3.91
turbo manuals 3.73
regular cars with the AW70 automatic 3.73
diesel manuals 3.54
diesel automatics 3.31
regular manual transmission M46 3.31
However, this is known to vary by year, but exactly how, I dunno. I _think_ the r.e. ratio is on the axle itself somewhere, in any case.
(5) The Diesel's engine is laid out differently, I think, from the gasser: in the Diesel, the A/C compressor and P/S pump are on the left and the alternator on the right. If the gasser is laid out differently you'll have to swap some more parts, and do a complete A/C evacuate/charge.
(6) If you get a Diesel with the same transmission type as your gasser, you'll have the right driveshaft, if, in fact, they are different. If they are the same, you'll have a spare. In fact, you'll have lots of spare _everything_ when you are done.
(7) If the dead Diesels I've seen are any guide, budget a complete day to clean the engine compartment before you start to pull the engine from the Diesel. When they get old, and blow-by starts to be a major problem, they seem to leak a lot. More than that. And used Diesel lube oil is pretty foul stuff. The first Diesel-to-Diesel engine swap I worked on took a gallon a "Purple Stuff" degreaser and $9.00 worth of quarter car washes to get the engine compartment in shape to work on. I'd budget another half day to finish cleaning up the engine compartment after you get the Diesel engine out.
(8) If the Diesel runs well, the engine is worth about $1,000 out of the car. If it doesn't, but the problem is just low compression, the injection pump alone might be worth the price of the car. Assuming, of course, that dead Volvo Diesels are worth the same $300-500 there as here.
I suppose the dream deal would be a dead (cheap) Diesel with the same color scheme as yours, so you could swap in the better interior parts, too ... Having the two cars side-by-side (rather than trying to buy the conversion piece-by-piece from a junkyard) means you can easily pick the best of any part of which you have two, as well as the opportunity to see how it should be done in every detail.
It sounds like a fun project, but not a one-weekend project!
-Shel
P.S. Maybe you should just come down here to Georgia, buy a nice, rust-free gasser, and save your knuckles.
Just a few things to add to Shel's list:
1. Your diesel front springs and shocks are stiffer due to the heavier VW engine. After conversion, you may see the front ride higher.
2. Clutch cable MAY be different, due to the different clutch cable hookup on a D24 than on a gas.
3. If you have a automatic, check the type. Non-turbo D24's were shipped with the BW55 3-speed automatic, not the 3+1 AW70. The bell housing, and the torque converter are different ffrom the gas version of the AW55/BW55. No knowledge of similarity with the AW70 torque converter. AW70/71's WERE used on D24T units, so D24-to-AW70 bell housings exist (probably only 7 on the planet, though ;^) ).
4. A wiring diagram for the year you're stealing from,. and the year you're inserting into will probably help a great deal.
5. I suspect that you will have to re-do the fuel lines in their entirity.
Now, if you're old diesel is still running, the parts should be worth bucks.
Example: Just the head if not warped is $150. The injection pump is another $300-500. The glow plug relay is at least $25.
Etc., etc.
Val
On Sep 15, 3:07pm, V093P9MD@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> As a side note, if the diesel ever starts to run rough at idle, and it
Figures...
> As is turned out, the bad fuel pump had caused the engine to run overly
Now if this were an unhappy fuel pump on a Kugelfischer injected Mercedes Benz gullwing that died in the middle of the Nurnbergring, I'd believe that story. However, a diesel engine always runs "lean" of stoichiometrically correct mixtures. That is just the way they work - i.e. a throttleless motor where power output is controlled by the amount of fuel injected. Yes, this causes combustion temperatures to be higher than typical in a gasoline powered motor. (Diesels emit less CO and HC than an otto cycle motor, and due to particulte emissions *and* the excess O2 in the exhaust can not use a reducing type NOx catalyst (NOx is formed by the high combustion temps.).
Severe localized hot spots due to a faulty injector pump causing lean running on a diesel? No way...
> There are 2 things I have learned from this
I wonder what was *really* wrong with your old motor. I guess the world will never know. The head may have been warped, etc. etc. but not due to the injector pump. *OR* the pump may have died on an already sick motor.
tim
Folks-
Just one more data point on the "Diesel combustion" subject ...
While it is true that the Diesel's fuel/air ratio varies widely, and it is very unlikely that a mere lack of fuel (i.e., "running lean") would damage anything except the driver's ego and the environment, the Volvo Diesel manual specifically mentions that "bad injectors" can cause "rounding off" of the upper edge of the pistons. I would think that if such a condition were allowed to continue for a long time the erosion of the piston(s) could continue to the point of outright failure.
Since one or more bad injectors would also cause a noticeable decrease in power in what is already a pretty marginal setup, the inexperienced or unsympathetic driver might be tempted to just "put the hammer down" and, uhhhhhhhhh, accelerate the problem.
The usual symptoms of bad injectors (actually bad spray patterns from the injectors) are decreased power and increased smoke. Injectors generally fail because of (1) internal mechanical failure, (2) wear, (3) particle contamination, or (4) fuel deposits.
Since the fuel pressure is something like 1400 PSI, I expect that checking the injectors is a job for a specialist. I've been told that atomized Diesel fuel squirted from the injectors at those pressures will penetrate the skin, and that the results of getting diesel fuel in your blood are not pleasant.
On the smoke front ... I recently tried some "Red Line Diesel Fuel Catalyst." As advertised, it does reduce the typical Diesel black smoke. Whether it is doing so by cleaning the injectors (as it claims) or by doing something more clever, I cannot say. The car seems to have a little more pep, too, but since I am not the regular driver, it's hard for me to tell.
Red Line, whose primary business is synthetic lubricants, sent along a brochure on the Diesel Catalyst, which, of course, claims it is the finest thing since oxygen. There was some non-mumbo-jumbo in the brochure, however, particularly about Diesel fuel cetane ratings. Cetane is sort of the Diesel fuel equivalent of the octane rating for gasoline. According to the blurb, most of the Diesel fuel in the USA these days isn't up to the cetane ratings Mercedes specifies for their cars, and low cetane can cause lack of power, excessive smoke, etc.
I don't know what cetane ratings Volvo (or VW) specifies, so I'm going to check the manual before I call all the local fuel suppliers ("yas, yas, I have a whole fleet of trucks but we don't have our own pumps") and find out whose fuel has what cetane ratings. We've used Texaco 99% of the time since the '84 240 Diesel was new, but I could switch!
Someone also asked about the temperature sensors on the Diesel ... I believe there are two of them on the engine. One in in the back of the head, just below the injector pump drive belt, in the lower left "corner" of the back of the head. You can see the wire to it just below the pump belt; it's the only thing electrical back there. The other one is on the left (pump) side of the engine block, behind the injection pump, I think. The oil pressure sender is on that side, too, right out in the open.
-Shel
Folks-
Bad lick for bhaskar-ramamoorthi@cs.yale.edu (Ramamoorthi Bhaskar); his Diesel has thrown a rod.
Since that doesn't seem to be a common failure mode, I have a question: have you done an autopsy to see what caused the failure?
As for a replacement block or engine ... I think you're going to have a bit of a problem getting a good used engine at a reasonable price. I participated in the installation of a used engine in a 240 Diesel (non-turbo) a while back, and the engine cost $1,500 from a used engine specialty place (Number 1 Engines, I think it's called). Installation was another $800 (labor) and $200 (parts.) The parts (timing belts, hoses, gaskets, waterpump) had to be replaced to keep the engine guarantee in force. The guarantee also required that we pop the oil pan off to check the rod bearings and clean the pan and oil pump.
The total cost of the job ($2,500) was about equal to the value of the car, it being an '83 240 wagon with 175,000 miles and a dog-shredded interior.
FWIW, there's a 7-series turbo Diesel in the Atlanta paper today, for $1,200. "Needs head work" the ad says. Shall I call the owner and smoke him out for you? (A little Diesel humor there ...)
IMHO, a _good_ used motor might be hard to find at a reasonable price. They don't last as long as the cars they come in, and folks have been more likely to swap motors than to rebuild the worn-out ones because no one wants to work on them. However, if your cylinder head is OK, you might be able to find a good "core" short block, and have that rebuilt. A while back, I asked Voluparts what they would want for a run-out motor; the price for the whole run-out motor escapes me, but I belived they said they would let the short-block go for $200. No head, no injection pump, for which they get $400 and $800 respectively, I think.
Rebuilding the bottom end of the engine would require some work, but they are just engines. Before you undertake this project, though, you need to find a set of oversize pistons. My understanding is that "real" Volvo pistons cost $200 _each_, so I'd call around and see. They may well be the same as Rabbit Diesel pistons, in which case aftermarket replacements at reasonable prices should be available.
My Diesel man says that merely putting in piston rings (to fix low compression, the usual Diesel killer) isn't very satisfactory, at least in Mercedes (his main specialty); that's why I suggest boring it for the oversize pistons.
Other than that, and making all the clearances _just_right_, it ought to be just another engine rebuild.
-Shel
Just a word to add to Shel's:
The common failure mode is either low compression due to worn block, <or> head warp.
If you have a good head, you might be able to pick up a block from somewhere (where they've sold off the head).
Spring's Auto Recycling in Jackson, NJ (central NJ) had a block for a 1980 D24 four years ago, so I know that companies do this sort of thing out there.
Val
In the March 1993 issue of the Canadian Volvo Owners Club Newsletter:
Thomas Bryant has written a letter to Volvo USA protesting the fact that repair parts are not available for the Cold Start Device used on Diesel Engines. Thomas says that the cold start device has a limited life. When the device fails, the engine will continue to start and run reasonably well in either hot or cold weather, the only symptom the owner is likely to notice is that the engine stays on fast idle when the engine is hot." Effectively, the injection timing is ADVANCED, leading to higher combustion temperatures.
The cold start device fails due to "loss of working fluid from the thermostat," which is part of the device. Thomas says that the thermostat is not sold separately by Volvo, but "sells only as part of a complete injection pump, which lists for $1548.55 (rebuilt)"
Thomas devoted several weeks to investigation of the issue and found that he was able to purchase the thermostat directly from Bosch - P/N 1-467-202-302 at a cost of $34.95.
If you recall, Andre's turbo-diesel had sudden death problems in hot weather last year, with internal damage appearing to have been from increased combustion temperatures. Faliure of the automatic injection timing system seems to be a likely culprit....
Any response?
tim
}If you recall, Andre's turbo-diesel had sudden death problems in
This is kinda funny since last weekend we were decided to pass on a beautiful, no-rust '84 245 with 67K on the odometer for $1800.
The gotcha was that it was a diesel with a cooked motor.
Below is the response that Shel sent me about it....
/\ Lawrence Buja Climate and Global Dynamics Division
-From: Shel Hall <76701.103@CompuServe.COM>
Lawrence-
$1,800 is absurdly high. Around here, dead Diesels are parts cars, and Voluparts pays $300-500 for 'em. No rust allowed, of course; this is Georgia.
The reason for this is that in good running condition, an '84 Volvo is only worth $5,000, tops, and most aren't worth that much. Rebuilding the engine costs $4,500.
That's a shop price, though; I think it can be done for a _lot_ less, but it will take some work. Parts prices are beyond ludicrous. A head gasket is $80. Pistons are $200. _*EACH*_ !!! A new injection pump is _*_$1,400_*_ ....
Now, you really ought to be able to get pistons for a lot less, even custom-forged ones, but I haven't tried to, 'cause mine runs fine. The book makes it look like Diesel Rabbit pistons will work, but I'd have to go over one of each with some good measurement tools before I knew for sure.
I mention pistons because everyone I know says that it's not worth just putting rings in _any_ Diesel. They say it's because the bore wear means the new rings will only last 10-15,000 miles, then you're back in the low-compression dumps. So, you gotta bore it out, which means taking that awesome lump out of the car ... finding a _good_ machinist, and buying lots of parts. Diesels wear their bores because the high compression pushes the rings out against the bore walls with several times as much force as gasoline engines, and this eventually leads to excessive bore wear, taper, ridge, etc.
I think that you could rebuild the short-block for $1,500, including parts and machine shop charges, _if_ you can get a decent price on pistons, say $300 for a set. Rebuilding it yourself would also give you the opportunity to create a bore-squirting setup so maybe the next set of rings would last longer. I'll bet some selective assembly of the piston-rod-crank-bore combinations would yield some additional power, too.
Rebuilding the head would cost I dunno how much, because it depends on whether the head is in spec for warpage, and what the valves are like, and what they cost. If I were building one, I'd certainly rebuild the head, and take a good look at the intake ports to see if there was any additional airflow to be had.
And, of course, while the engine is out, you'll want to replace the clutch ...
All this assumes that the problem is low compression, which is the usual failure mode for those cars, particularly in cold weather. Denver's altitude can't help, either. I'll be it would run OK in San Diego or Death Valley....
I'd imagine a normally-aspirated Volvo Diesel would be a rolling roadblock at your altitude, too. Ever driven one? They are pretty slow at sea level, up at 5,000 feet I'll bet they really suck.
Of course, if it's a super-clean body (but it's gotta have over 100k miles on it by now) you could toss that VW Diesel and put in a Chevy 350. About the same weight, and 3 times the HP. Or maybe a nice 3.3 litre BMW engine, so you still get that beautiful "straight six" sound, with about 200 HP.
Were I you, I'd be looking for a Volvo Turbo (gasoline) wagon, or, if you really want a Diesel, get a Mercedes 300TD. You can get nice running, early-eighties examples of the latter for $5-8K around here. Get an '82 or later, or whenever it was they started with the turbo. The Mercedes Diesel engine has a _really_ long life, unlike the Volvo/VW unit.
Another wagon you might think about is the Peugeot 505. Really out of favor, since Peugeot left the US market, so they are dirt-cheap. They seem to run forever, albeit it with a little fiddling. Even the shock absorbers are rebuildable, and the cars are _huge_ inside. Forward- facing third seat, too. One of our friends has a turbo Diesel 505 wagon. It's been great, even if she's wrecked it 3 times ... be sure you have a good parts situation, though. Seems to me some netter in N.C. just bought out a whole dealer parts inventory, but I can't remember just who it was. [ Chuck Sweptson]
I dunno what sort of emissions test the seller is talking about; I don't think there were _any_ emissions regs on Diesels until the '85 model year. I'm told that the '85 regs, and shrinking market share, is why Volvo quit selling the 240 Diesel over here. I know they sold 'em in Europe through '89, at the least. The US-model 7xx got the TurboDiesel through '86, I think, but with the extra air the turbo crams in, they run a good bit cleaner. If you don't mind hacking an exhaust system, the 7xx turbo system is a bolt-in on the 240, or so I'm told.
We don't have emissions inspections for _any_ Diesels in Atlanta, although we do for gassers from '82 up.
If you want a local source of VW knowledge, try Kathryn Ring (73377.2371@CompuServe.Com), she's a VW tech at a dealership in Denver. She's not a real Diesel guru, but she knows who to ask. Tell her I sent you.
-Shel
Folks-
Tim sez ...
>>> In the March 1993 issue of the Canadian Volvo Owners Club Newsletter... Thomas Bryant ... protesting ... parts are not available for the Cold Start Device used on Diesel Engines ... limited life ... not sold separately by Volvo, but "sells only as part of a complete injection pump, which lists for $1548.55 (rebuilt)" ... Any response? <<<
Any response? Yeah, but it's not printable on a Family List.
Generally, Volvo is pretty bad about acknowledging its mistakes, and even worse about making up for them.
Compare this with (gasp!) Ford Motor Company, which is repainting, gratis, hundreds of cars and trucks made since 1987 because the paint they used _seven_years_ago_ is peeling off _now_.
Personally, my experience with the local Volvo dealer and VCNA indicates that buying a new Volvo just really isn't a good idea. It's just a crappy organization.
On the technical side, if you can't get a new Cold Start Device from a Bosch supplier, you might try a VW dealer, as the Rabbit used what looks like a very similar device. You could even use the _manual_ ("choke cable") version off a really early Rabbit Diesel.
-Shel
Oh, baby , the stories Shel, Roman, and the rest of us could tell you...
Short list of rules:
1. Evaluate as if you would have to replace the engine tomorrow. That is, is it worth 2500 if you need to rip out the engine? These guys die without warning, so you never know when your next start is going to be an unhappy event.
1A. If you don't do your own work, run now. You CAN'T make this deal work, even if they give you the car. A gasser wagon at $4,000 is a better deal than this car if you depend on a garage for the technical expertise.
1B. If you do your own owrk, plan on buying or making some special tools to get you through replacing the timing belts and resetting the engine timing (req. a dial gauge and camshaft stop).
If you get past this news,
2. Make sure there is no oil in the antifreeze.
3. Watch out for oil or antifreeze seeping from the head gasket (sign of warped head...)
4. No white smoke on startup.
5. All cylinders should run on startup.
6. Inspect condition of timing belts (pump belt is visable on rear pump). Should be changed every 75K miles. Front belt failure results in engine self-destruction.
7. Inspect maintenance records. Volvo rec. 7.5K oilchange interval. Way too infrequent, but if owner stretched it past THAT, who the he.. knows how much wear has taken place.
8. Casually ask about oil consumption. Anything over a quart per 1500 miles is a warning sign.
The real test would be a compression test on each cylinder. The prob. is that you'll have to remove the fuel delivery pipes and injectors to do the test, and most sellers aren't going to let you disassemble half the fuel system to check out their product.
If it is a manual, the clutch shouldn't slip. If it is an automatic, smell the fluid for burnt smell. Automatic should shift smoothly.
Hope this helps (and by the way, I like my diesel, but that's because I've spent so much time with her... ;^)
Val
Mike sent the following mail. Maybe someone else could use the dedtails?
> Hi Val :
> I wanted to ask u for advice/ information on the tools u mentioned
You need to get the crankshaft bolt off of the crankshaft pully. The problem is that 450 footpounds is the documented torque on the bolt. First, take a 1/2 drive 27mm socket and put it on the bolt. Next, make an engine holder to go "over" the socket and extention bar.
I ended up taking a piece of 2" galv. pipe, and drilling two 1/2 holes into it across the pipe about 2" apart. I then took two long 1/2 inch grade 5 bolts through the holes and into the recess of the crankshaft pully. The bolts have to be long enough so that they will go into the pully while the socket is on the bolt inside the pully. The bolts hit the counterweight vibration dimples on the crankshaft, thus allowing you to hold the engine still while you turn the bolt.
Get the pully off, and you can remove the front belt.
To do the timing after you remove the belts you need a dial gauge. You end up removing the screw in the center of the fuel delivery pipes on the pump, which exposes the pump plunger. The dial goes in here to measure the travel of the pump plunger. Then, you rotate things until the plunger shows the right amount of travel on the dial gauge, which is an indication that the timing is correct.
Which of the service manuals do you have for the volvo? (Volvo, chilton, haynes)? A xerox of the volvo manual is helpful here (If you want, I can get you visuals of my manual).
To hold the camshaft, you need a "stop" which is a flat piece of metal that fits into the rear of the camshft to lock it at 0 TDC while you are tightening the front camshaft sproket. The thing about these engines is that there are NO KEYS on the camshaft: Its all endbolt on the sprocket with lots of pressure holding the sproket on.I made mine out of a 2" Wide, 6 " long, 1/4" thick piece of brass stock, and then carefully filed it to fit in the crankshaft stop. You also will end up taking out the two rear valve cover studs (no big deal) to give some room to let the stop rest on the top of the head.
You also need something to hold the front, and then the rear sproket while you go to tighten each endbolt. I made a holder out of a piece of 3/4" black pipe with some 1/2 Y pipe, little stub nipples, and the like to on the end get a tool that looks like a 3 foot long piece of pipe with two 1/2 inch pipe fingers at the end to fit into two different holes on the sproket.
Finally, they say you need a belt tension gauge. I did this by eyeball--I hope I don't run into future problems.
If the engine is out of the car, the belts aren't too hard. In the car, the rear camshaft sproket is a bear becasue there's no clearence between the sproket and the firewall. To do the rear endbolt requires a 19mm (3/4 inch) flat box wrench. I found the the "Craftsman" ¾ wrench works well here, but you need to add a pipe over the wrench to get enough torque to turn the bolt. Sears also makes a grey plastic "all in one" wratched box wrench. It's real helpful in the back because it does NOT have the 15 degree offset the way most box wrenches are made.
If all this sounds like something you want to try, just send some email and I'll get you a parts list on the sprocket holder and the stop.
> ALso, I seem to have a bad or sticky injector (reference VW Jetta
To determine which injector is going, gone, start engine, warm up, and get to even idle. Now, take a rag and wrap it around an injector top, then take a 17mm wrench and loosen the fuel delivery pipe on the injector. The loose pipe will mean that not enough pressure can be built up in the pipe to open the injector, and the injector is no longer operating. If this slows the engine or introduces a knock, then you know that the injector WAS working. If this doesn't affect the operation, then you know that the inject WAS NOT working, and its the faulty one.
I never rebuilt an injector. I just did a swap at the dealer for $55.
> Plus how to replace #6 glo-plug without removing pump?
Unfortunately, ain't no way I know of.
Hope this helps. (Now you see what I meant about spending some time with her...)
ValThe Never ending D24T Story.
Date: 17 Feb 92 10:25:24 EST
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: <volvo-net@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: D24T, the Never Ending Saga
To: <rao@Kodak.COM>
Subject: The Neverending D24T Story
>>>
(ii) All the problems seemed to start or get worse after I had the
75K service (belts, injection timing, valve adjustment) at 82K. Could
the shop have done something nasty to have caused all this (esp. given
that there's been a strange, unlocatable, rpm dependent sound in
the engine ever since)?
<<<
>>>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 10:53:32 EST
From: rao@kodak.com (Arun Rao)
To: volvo-net@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Bad cold-start device on D24T
From: matula@cblpo.att.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 14:04 EST
To: rao@kodak.com
Cc: volvo-net@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Re: Bad cold-start device on D24T
Return to the top of the page.
Glow plug problems .... Again.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 20:48:05 EDT
From: swk@mlb.semi.harris.com (Song Koh)
To: swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Glow plug problems... Again!
Richard> Remember me? I'm the guy in Hawaii with an '82 diesel
Richard> wagon which has perpetual glow plug problems. Once again, I
Richard> am perplexed and seek the wisdom and advice of the members of
Richard> Volvo-net.
Richard> ...
Richard> I ordered 5 Bosh glow plugs from George (TVK) today. My
Richard> theory (read: hope) is that my problem is just cheap JCW
Richard> parts and when I install the new Bosh plugs my glow plug
Richard> problems will come to an end. My concern is that I'm wrong
Richard> and that something else is going on that I don't understand
Richard> and when I install the new glow plugs they will be damaged by
Richard> whatever mechanism damaged the old ones.
Richard> ...
swk@mlb.semi.harris.com MS 62-022
Voice: (407)-724-7085 P. O Box 883 (US mail)
Fax: (407)-729-4960 Palm Bay Road (UPS)
Melbourne, FL 32902-0883
Date: 12 Apr 92 18:34:58 EDT
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: RE: RE: Glow plugs, again.
Return to the top of the page.
Timing belts and chains.
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:26:06 EDT
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: Belts and Chains
>>they are an unmitigated disaster for the car owner. They are
>>expensive to replace and prone to early failure. Timing belt failure
>>can turn a nice, clean, low mileage $4500 Volvo into a $300 parts car
>>in less than a second, without a bit of warning.
>>> On some cars this is true, on others it is not. It all depends on the piston-to valve clearance. My Volvo, an 81 Turbo, broke a timing belt and except for the radiator discintegrating due to rot when I took it out, the repair cost me less than $200.<<<
radiator
radiator shroud
fan
all three fan belts (assuming A/C and P/S)
crankshaft pulley/balancer (I think you have to jack up the engine)
two outer timing belt covers
Return to the top of the page.
How can I remove the diesel injectors?
From: matula@cblpo.att.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 09:35 EDT
To: Shel Hall <att!compuserve.com!76701.103>, <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: deisel injectors
How often should you check the valve clearance?
Date: 26 May 92 00:47:31 EDT
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: RE: Volvo Diesels
Return to the top of the page.
Diesel to gas conversion.
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:21:46 EDT
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: Diesel to Gas conversion
Table by model
From: matula@cblpo.att.com
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 08:29 EDT
To: Shel Hall <att!compuserve.com!76701.103@aitgw.ge.com>, "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: Re: Diesel to Gas conversion
Return to the top of the page.
Information on diesel combustion.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:28:59 EDT
From: Tim Takahashi <tim@me.rochester.edu>
To: swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Diesel Combustion
>seems like you picked up some bad fuel, check the Injector pump IMEDIATELY. I
>was on vacation with my parents recently to the New England area when this
>occured on the way. It was an extreamly costly error of diagnosses.....
> The Portand Volvo guy was very friendly, but the mechanic didn't sound
> like he knew much about Diesels.
> lean, and caused severe localized hot spots in the engine that either wreaked
> the piston rings, or both the rings and pistons, or also the cylindar wall(s).
> 1. Either the diesels die .....
> 2. Never let your engine run overly lean (easier said than done ofcourse!).
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:32:45 EDT
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: RE: Diesel combustion, etc.
Return to the top of the page.
Can you purchase a good used diesel engine for "cheap"?
Date: 09 Feb 93 12:46:45 EST
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: re: new engine/block for 86 Volvo diesel
From: matula@cblpo.att.com
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 14:13 EST
To: Shel Hall <att!compuserve.com!76701.103>, "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: re: new engine/block for 86 Volvo diesel
Diesel engine meltdown causes found!?!?
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 13:36:55 EST
From: Tim Takahashi <tim@me.rochester.edu>
To: swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Diesel-phibes! Diesel engine meltdown causes found!?!?
From: southern@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Lawrence Buja)
Subject: Re: Diesel-phibes! Diesel engine meltdown causes found!?!?
To: swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu (Volvo mailing list)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 12:45:43 MST
}hot weather last year, with internal damage appearing to have been
}from increased combustion temperatures. Faliure of the automatic injection
}timing system seems to be a likely culprit....
}Any response?
\_][ southern@ncar.ucar.edu National Center for Atmospheric Research
\_________________________Boulder,_Colorado___80307-3000__________
-To: <southern@ncar.ucar.edu>
-Subject: Dead Diesels Destroy Denver!
Date: 09 Mar 93 19:56:11 EST
From: Shel Hall <76701.103@compuserve.com>
To: "Volvo.net" <swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu>
Subject: RE: Diesel-phibes! Diesel engine ...
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Rules for evaluating a used diesel.
From: matula@cblpo.att.com
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 09:36 EST
To: att!hafnium.cchem.berkeley.edu!avk (Tony Konashenok), swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Re: Found a Dream Car - advice needed!
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What tools do I need to replace the timing belt?
From: matula@cblpo.att.com
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 12:42 EST
To: att!att!East.Sun.COM!Mike.Sestina (Mike Sestina - Sun BOS Hardware)
Cc: swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu
Subject: Re: Diesel tools motor
> in the mail for changing the timing belts on the D-24.
> diesel shop manual) indicated by sometimes knocking noise after
> hi-speed run, techron quiets it down) and need advice on how to
> locate which one it is, replacement and/or cost effectiveness of
> rebuilding the bad injector.
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